Drew Marshall, the long-time host of The Drew Marshall show – Canada’s most listened to spiritual talk show, joined us once again for this episode of The Change Makers Podcast. This time, Drew is joined by his wife, Bev, for an enormously deep, honest conversation about the cost of ministry, creating space for people’s messes and whether or not it’s okay to be in ministry when you don’t have all the answers. Listen and access the show notes here or search for The Change Maker’s Podcast on your favourite listening app. PS - If you haven’t listened to episode 006 with Drew, click here. 

3 Insights from Bev and Drew

1. There is a cost to ministry.

It can be easy to justify putting in long hours into ministry work because it’s labelled as Kingdom work. In this episode, Ellen highlighted a quote she heard often in her early ministry life: “It is better to burn out than to fade out,” – meaning that you do whatever it takes. It’s easy to fall into this trap and blur priorities between work and other commitments. Bev shared that working in ministry can become a part of your identity, rather than a relationship with the Creator and it was a natural shift for her to pour herself into her ministry work as her marriage with Drew suffered. Bev shared, “I think when you're working for God, you can give yourself that pat on the shoulder and say all these hours are not for me – they’re for God. In Christian ministry, you just keep working so you either burn yourself out or you hear about a lot of times people being burnt out.”

2. We don’t make time or create space for other people’s messes.

It’s devastating to hear that someone you know is pursuing divorce. Breakdowns in marriage are not commonly talked about in Christian communities because of how highly marriage is viewed. Drew and Bev kept their struggles quiet, as many couples do, because the Christian sphere doesn’t always feel like a safe place for these discussions. Drew shared that many Christians don’t share about their marriage breakdown because it’s incredibly embarrassing and he urged Christians to start asking questions and being better listeners. Someone you know may be trying to reach out for help in their marriage but we have busied ourselves so much that we do not have room for those we love. We need to make time and create space for other people’s messes and be willing to ask questions and listen. While this aspect of Christian culture is changing, there is still a long way to go. If your church does not have a small group to talk about marriage-breakdowns, start one. It might save a marriage.

3. Don’t have all of the answers? You can still be in ministry.

For younger generations, it’s appealing when leaders admit that they don’t have all of the answers.Often times, we raise our spiritual leaders up on platforms, they become celebrities we worship and we demand that they are supposed to know all of the answers. Drew painted a beautiful picture from Michael Yaconelli’s book, Messy Spirituality, where a pastor stepped down because they were having doubts – but the congregation told him he couldn’t so that they could work out what he was doubting and questioning together as a church. Let’s do the same and allow our leaders and pastors to struggle and wrestle openly. It’s okay to not have all of the answers.Want to hear more? Click here to listen in to Ellen’s conversation with Bev and Drew Marshall.